This the story of how my bank screwed me over and almost killed me, of course I have exaggerated with this language, but the fact is it properly reflects my irritation with what I’ve experienced as to describe it my way here.
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This story begins in Pattaya, Thailand. And in a way it almost ended there, as you shall see.
I’ve already explained that I have lived in Thailand (for over ten years) after retiring from the U.S. Department of State. This makes for an interesting vacation for my wife and I There’s an inexpensive hotel right on the beach with a nice swimming pool. There’s a 7/11 store and McDonald’s across the street. The 711 has a couple of ATM machines so I walked over and took some money out with my Schwab ATM card. So far, no problem.
Back in my room I realized I didn’t have my ATM card. I looked out my hotel window and I could see the ATM machine. But I knew I just lost it there by not tsking the card when the money came out. So, of course, I immediately called Schwab bank. I was able to tell them exactly where the card was lost and how much I took out which they could see on their access to my balance sheet. Since I knew exactly what happened and they agreed to send a new card via over overnight mail.
As soon as it arrived and saw our Schwab bank balance. We put the computer away.
But I’m only telling this tale so you can see that we definitely had recent contact with Schwab via phone, and got a new ATM passcode/pin number and card.
This is when the problems began. My wife and I arranged a doctor’s appointment at the Bangkok General Hospital in Bangkok. The bus between Pattaya and Bangkok is short and a modest price.
Because knew I would I was going to be spending plenty at the hospital, I wanted to look at my balance at the bank to see if my last pension deposit was there.
So, we signed on to do that. And I was shocked when I got a screen that said that I had to confirm my identity.
That screen also said I could do that in one of three ways 1st I could call Schwab and Schwab would reply with a code. 2nd I could call Schwab and Schwab would reply to my call, via LINE (very popular in Thailand) or something like that I don’t recall now.
My wife and I tried methods 1 & 2 twice and sat looking at our phone – and nothing happened. No ringing and no further instructions.
The 3rd choice was to call a phone number they provided for me to call Schwab.
Tt was 1-0888-403-9000. To make an international call from Thailand you first enter 003. The 1 is the USA country code. This always worked although we
paid for international calls from Thailand to the USA at our LD expense.
Note, in this number given by Schwab it had area code 403. I went to the internet to find where that is. AT first I found it is NOT a USA area code. Later when I tried again the Internet said that 403 is actually a Canadian area code or maybe it said it could be in the Rocky Mountains the word Denver was in there but I’m sure Denver has its own area code and it would have been clear. But this provides a little element of mystery.
This seemed comforting because no problem, we could make a call knowing we would speak to a person. Frankly I like that better anyway.
But still the Schwab staffer we got on the telephone asked me a few questions, not hard questions, and that I guessed that is their process to confirm that it was really me. I tried to explain I knew I had a perfectly good password and how I got it just the previous day from Schwab, but that didn’t matter.
After doing this I never got to my balance statement.
The next thing we saw was the same screen telling me I must confirm my identity and gave me the three ways to do so!!! Again!!!
After this, the same result was repeated several times and, only then, we realized something weird was going on. I guess we might have made as much as 9 or 10 calls. I asked my wife’s opinion. She is the one with the PhD, and several years younger than me, and she guessed we had made at least a dozen calls with the same result. Maybe their computer was broken. I think that was true when we waited to try again the next day.
OK, I don’t know how many times we tried doing the same thing, but I, at least, became more aggravated. more Every single time we spoke to someone and and tried to explain have happens. And every time, before we get our balance sheet instead, we get confronted with same (damned) screen telling me that I must confirm my identity.
The questions got more difficult. At first they asked my date of birth. Then my mother’s maiden name.
But another aspect of this problem is they are asking me questions based on information they must have on their computer. They don’t know me. I assume their computer also surely shows that I had called several times recently from Thailand. I wondered if an IP algorithm set an alarm that I was high risk?
And the questions become harder and harder in this process. At first, they wanted my birthday, they wanted my mother’s maiden name, and things like that it was easy then I seemed to remember my own birthdate. I’m 77 years old now and my mother died at age 99. You might not accurately remember your mother’s maiden name. (I don’t know how her middle name is spelled anymore. What if they ask that?
As this process went on between multiple phone calls, they asked some really brilliant questions on their part The best example is they wanted to know if I can tell the Schwab bank staffer my bank balance. Oh, Jesus Christ!!!! How can I be expected to remain calm. and NOT lose my temper when my whole point of these questions is to see my bank account before I go off to spend money at my hospital!!! This process is effectively hiding my bank balance from me. This could be the kind of situation you find yourself in.
In my case, there was a Schwab staffer late in this process who had the gall to say that I can’t yell at him, imping that I was And I replied, strongly, that I was raising my voice because he wasn’t listening to a word I was saying.
But again, the questions became even more intrusive. A Schwab staffer thought she was being helpful when she suggested that I could take a short quiz. She explained I must answer quickly. She didn’t say how many questions there would be.
The first question irritated me, even insulted me so thoroughly that that was the end of that…
Her question was, “Give me the address of Janel Emily Kane.” The address!! Wow! That really took the cake! If she asked me to say who Janel Emely Kane, is or was, and if that would let me see my Schwab bank statement, OK!
Janel Emily Kane is my daughter! My only child now after my son died in a playground accident. The Schwab staffer expected me to give her my daughter’s address and to do it quickly!
All families are not the same! After 32 seemingly good years of marriage I am divorced from Janel Emil Kane’s mother. I haven’t seen my daughter or had any contact with her in many years. And also years after she left the home and her first and second marriage/divorce Honestly! I am spending late years of my life wondering what my role was, and her role, in the breakup my marriage.
This question can bring up so many negative overtones for me.
Apparently. Schwab has my daughter’s address, even if I don’t.
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This brings we to the punchline of my Schwab Bank story. I said in the title that my bank’s processes came close to killing me and I meant it.
Next, this requires an explanation. because I admit I was exaggerating But, If it helped you read to the end. GOOD.
I was in the hotel in Pattaya when this began. I sat down to write about it while it was fresh. I like to write. It is cathartic. But I quickly felt dizzy. I stood up and fell onto my hotel bed and just laid there for maybe an hour until my wife returned with a taxi to go to the Pattaya bus station. but I threw up in the taxi. I collapsed on the parking lot at the bus station My wife called an ambulance who took me to the Bangkok General Hospital in Pattaya, not in Bangkok And they gave me an NRI, not an MRI, and diagnosed that I had had a stroke. Although i was mostly only half awake at the hospital, I though I held that some one that it was 50/50 that I was a live. Now, about two mnths later I live by the Matto, “I’m NOT DEAD YET”
Should I blame Schwab Bank by claiming this stroke was the direct result of the drawn-out process that I went through?
I suppose not. It’s my health and not theirs. And the whole world is being swept by fear and over concern for the chances that we will be cheated or robbed so maybe, just, security is warranted. But that is something I would like to know for sure. It is an election year in the USA and one candidate is contributing rife spread of fears. of many things. I hope he will be home
But this is my story. If I associate this with a big twist in my health, then here I do. May we are all to afraid and I want t know if that is true.
First, a very relative Cartoon contributed by a subscriber.
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Every one of the people” who came to the phone said exactly the same things, first a normal – kind of American first name, and, second, followed by a city name, almost always a mid-size city in main land America. But with every call I always got a different person, and always presuming to claim to be in a different city. Grant it, it is a big company and has many branches. But come on. The phone is answered 24 hours a day and so I asked one of those who answered where she worked “She said it was a phone center.” If so, that implies to me that there must be a lot of phone centers for my bank. I wonder how many phone centers are needed by all similar truly large, banks these days?
At the very least I have discovered a very hostile environment for older people and certainly for anyone with health issues.
Okay, but I had just gone through a vicious cycle of at least dozen calls, and it seemed like every time the person? who answered identified with a standard kind of first name and being in a different city Why? Were “they” Robots each programmed to say a different city. Based on my experience maybe that is how maintenance staff know which circuit board to replace. Example, Dallas needs to be replaced. (I have seen that before.
Let me add some more here for your consideration if you have never wondered if someone you talk to on the phone might really be a Robat.
First, a simple example. I ordered a Pizza last night. We live in Surin, Thailand. We are on a modest vacation in Pattaya Thailand, a seven-hours from home. I have a four-digit phone code to use when I order Pizza in Surin, The same code works the same way in Pattaya and Bangkok and probably every corner on Thailand. Do you think you are always talking to the same person who takes your pizza order and even seems to know where you live? Wrong. Somewhere there is a very big and smart digital EPBX which sends your Pizza order close to where you plan to eat it automatically based on your previous orders. They “know” you better than you realize!
To have and AI robots routinely pass as people with a wide range of voices, and gender only require APS which are now available. A large Pizza chain may only have one central phone system answering their same three-digit code for the entire county. But I assure you large EPBX venders, can provide the voice of a famous person to hold a limited conversation with you if there is reason to do that, and you may never realize it isn’t really him/her.
Maybe a n AI Robot’s instruction (let’s say algorithm) makes a determination that if a telephone call is initiated in Thailand, (just as an example) the algorithm of the AI applies extra effort to deny access to that kind of caller to the office the USA. No real people may even have specific knowledge of this happening. But an elderly, invalid person who has lost access to his cash while traveling in a foreign country is the one who is harmed.
I am real honest
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But who am I? I am that elderly76 year old man newly invalid with Parkinson Disease, who cannot get access to my Bank Acct when I needed it most. And I am angry about it.
But I am also retired from the U.S. Government, first at GSA’s FTS (Federal Telecommunication System), then as reginal manager of a four-state area in what was then known as the fourth largest long-distance telephone network in the world.
Next, I moved over to The Department of State which needed phone guys during transition from Analog AT&T to Digital PBXs. At GSA I was trained on the Nortel MeridianEPBX At STATE I served twice as IMO (Information Manage Officer) at a smallish embassy. I was the guy who got up on the roof to move our satellite dishes to new satellites. I was the only one there qualified to install classified telephones.
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TO – Charles Schwab Bank and Corporation, security
Post Office Box 82601
El Paso, Texas, 79998
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From – John F. Kane
Soi 2 M.7 Norkmuang Muang,Surin,
Thailand, 32000
I have been locked out of my account 41XXXXXX
And I want this unlocked immediately
An apology will also be welcomed.
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This is an angry letter which I assume represents many elderly or and/or unhealthy Schwab Customers.
I am angry, and I believe justifiably so. I wish to make an effective presentation of Schwab’s problem which turned into my damnation for over two weeks. Yet even by writing and mailing a letter, I have no confidence a human being will ever read it. Robotics and computer algorithms may have more to do to with understanding what Schwab has put us through.
I will explain the heart of the problem:
First, I am an elderly medically handicapped Schwab Bank customer. While Schwab staff at times seem helpful, they too may be ham strung by computer or robotic (AI?) limitations that have been defeating me and my wife for over two weeks.
Here goes. I knew I had my correct user ID and freshly minted new password to provide access to my Schwab Bank Account records. I knew this because a week and a half earlier I lost my Schwab ATM card. It wasn’t stolen. When the Schwab staffer asked where I used it last. I was able to clearly explain where and when I used it, how much I took out with it. And what I said matched her (my) bank records. the new card took longer than expected to arrive by so called overnight mail and by that time I had only about $1 in Thai baht in my pocket. I use the ATM card for access to cash such as taxies, subways, smaller restaurants.
Like a credit card, if you lose an ATM card you do the same thing to replace it. You must use internet to tell your bank (in this case Schwab Bank) that you got it via their mail and then go through an easy-enough process to give yourself a new password for the ATM card. We did this. My wife and I tried our new password for the new ATM card, and it worked. and we put the computer away. My wife and I store user IDs and passwords as bookmarks. This seems to work well. Note: Everything that is described here took place on my own MacBook Air that is unchanged in any way.
This is where the excitement began for me. The first time I tried to see my bank account using the new password, instead I saw on my screen what I have started (to call only jokingly) Schwab’s screen of death.
I believe that screen is also where it mentions getting a six-digit code for the first time. But since that time my wife and I have seen this screen at least a dozen times. This is a screen tells me I MUST confirm my identity, just as I did the day before to activate the new ATM card.
On this screen there are three boxes for me to pick from.
Box 1) – ask Schwab to send something to me by text, presumably the six digit code.
Box 2) for Schwab to call me at my phone number in the box which was correct for me based on their records and
Box 3) which is for me to call Schwab by phone just as we did the previous day to sign in to activate the ATM card
So, we used step one & two and sat watching the phone And what happened?
Nothing. No message, no call – and no six digit code.
This is when we moved on to box three to call Schwab again like we did successfully the previous day. There was always an answer to our call but there was also a wait on hold – and remember, I was calling long distance at my expense from Thailand.
Ultimately there was comfort in getting help from a human – or maybe not.
Every time, even when knew we were using the correct password which we received the day before (as described) we always – always – received the same Schwab screen telling me that I must confirm my identify by using the three choices in the boxes.
The best we could assume at this point was that we were stuck in a dead-end computer loop.
This was the beginning of many calls in this way over several days. I guessed there were at least 6, or 7 times we had made calls in this way but, I asked my wife’s memory of how many calls like that we had made over several days. She is the one with the PhD and two master’s degrees, so when I ask her how many times we went through this dead end cycle, I will include her answer here. Her guess was that we went through that vicious cycle at least 10 and maybe 12 times. Wow
With most of these calls we were teased with success. At least once we were given a six-digit code, at least twice we were given a ‘”temporary password” which allowed us to get our own new password, and we did. Success was staring us in the face.
But no matter what we did, what progress we seemed to have made, how many personal questions I had answered to prove I was me; I was always returned to the same screen demanding that I confirm my identity. I am yet to see my bank account to this day.
Thank goodness the ATM card works because I am facing a torrent of new expenses, home remolding and untimely medical expenses.
I asked a couple of times if these calls to Schwab were being recorded and was told they were. Well damn it I want someone with real authority to listen to what I have gone through.
Every Schwab person I would get on the phone asked questions. For example, I was asked “what is my mother’s maiden name”? numerous times, but the questions became more difficult, for example, what is the “approximate amount of my bank account or what is the last deposit”? Wow knowing those questions is exactly why I wanted access to my bank account.
You can imagine how exasperating this could be.
Once I was so angry when trying to learn my bank balance via the phone that I yelled a famous swear word and slammed the phone down. There were other times of frustration. but mostly I remained patient. In my last attempt to call Schwab the man accused me of yelling at him and I was very clear in reply that I was raising my voice because he was forcing me to follow only his script and I was unable to get a word in edgewise.
So, back to the computer problem:
Those repeated dead-end calls took place over several days. We (wife and I) more than once thought we finally had a password that would surely work. Considering the time zone difference, we wanted to see if my pension check was in the bank before stepping up to the ATM machine to get cash.
And you probably guessed it yourself, our computer screen went straight to the screen requiring me to identify myself – again and again and again. Even after doing all this, I never was able to see my bank account.
Remember, my only goal was to find out my current bank balance before I get on to my next hospital visit , in Bangkok, where I will be paying for what might be an unexpectedly big bill.
I wish to thank Logan in Omaha for breaking this chain. It only took a few words to humanize himself. This letter is the result.
It was Logan in Omaha who explained to me that it was beyond his power to just unlock my account and that I have to send a notarized letter to this address to get my account reopened.
Every one of the people came to the phone by saying exactly the same things, first a normal -kind of first name, and second, followed by a city name, almost always a mid-size city in main land America. But with each call I always seemed get a different person, and always presuming to claim to be in a different city, all with good speaking quality. Of course, Schwab can be selective on hiring good speakers. The phone is answered 24 hours a day and so I asked one of those who answered if she worked at one of Schwab’s many brokage offices. She said, “no it was a phone bank.” If so that implies to me that there must be a lot of phone-banks.
It the very least I have discovered a very hostile environment for older people and certainly for anyone with health issues.
Okay, but I had just gone through a vicious cycle of at least 8 and maybe a dozen calls, and it seemed like every time the person? who answered identified with a standard kind of first name and being in a different city (why?). Were “they” Robots each programmed to say a different city. Maybe that is how maintenance staff know which circuit board to replace. Example, Dallas needs to be replaced. (I have seen that before.) – I remember some of the cities: the biggest was Dalles, but also Denver, Indianapolis, Phoenix, Columbus, Milwaukee, and several more but never the same.
Let me add some more here for your consideration if you have never wondered if someone you talk to on the phone might really be a Robat.
First, a simple example. I ordered a Pizza last night. We live in Surin, Thailand. We are on a modest vacation in Pattaya Thailand, a seven-hour bus ride away from home. I have a four-digit phone code to use when I order Pizza in Surin and the same code works the same way in Pattaya and in Bangkok and in Surin. Do you think you are always talking to the same person who takes your order and even seems to know your address where you live? Wrong. Somewhere there is a very big and smart digital PBX which sends your Pizza order close to where you plan to eat it automatically based on your previous orders. They “know” you better than you realize!
To have and AI robots to routinely pass as people with a wide range of voices, and gender only require APS which are now available. A large Pizza chain may only have one central phone system answering their same three-digit code for the entire county. But surely you are familiar with APs available for your own computer. I assure you large EPBX venders, for a price, If she agrees, again for a price, Julie can hold a conversation with you if there is reason for that, and you may never realize it isn’t really her. A much larger company like a very large bank/stock broker has the resources/ connections to develop a very professionally script for an AI Robat To do almost anything it is expected to do to identify a bank account owner. over the telephone.
Maybe the Robot’s instruction (let’s say algorithm) makes a determination that if a telephone call is initiated in Thailand, (just as an example) the algorithm of the AP applies extra effort to deny access to that kind of caller. No real people may ever have specific knowledge of this happening, except the elderly, invalid man who has lost access to his cash while traveling in a foreign country
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But who am I? I am that elderly76 year old man newly invalid with Parkinson Disease, who cannot get access to my Schwab Bank Acct when I need it most. And I am angry about it.
But I am also retired from the U.S. Government, first at GSA’s FTS (Federal Telecommunication System), then as reginal manager of a four-state area in what was then known as the fourth largest long-distance telephone network in the world.
Next, I moved over to The Department of State which needed phone guys during transition from Analog AT&T to Digital PBXs. I served twice as IMO (Information Manage Officer) at a smallish embassy. I was the guy who got up on the roof to move our satellite dishes to new satellites. I was the only one there qualified to install classified telephones. My office held the skiff for transmission of all classified documents. Excuse me for saying this, but although now retired, I held of Top-Secret Clearances, for years. I suggest have some qualifications to be accepted at least as the holder of my tiny bank without what I have gone through
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SPECIAL NOTE. At a time when this frustration was at its strongest, I sat down to write this letter (in my Pattaya hotel) I was only a few paragraphs in when I suddenly got dizzy and fell back onto the bed next to the desk. My rest was short. My wife came back with a taxi to go the Pattaya bus station to go to Bangkok. I had an appointment with a stint expert at 9:30 am the next morning in the main BGH (Bangkok General Hospital) headquarters in Bangkok. But instead, I threw up in the Pattaya bus parking lot and passed out. People carefully laid me on the ground. My wife called the BGH Ambulance and I spent two days in the Pattaya branch of BGH for observation. That was the only time I stayed overnight in a hospital since I was five years old. At the hospital I had an NRI scan and surprise, I had a stroke, at least it was a small one.
Do I blame my Schwab Bank for this. Yes, at least some.
So, unlock my account immediately.
Maybe I will be satisfied with a good, believable, even teckie oriented explanation of why for several critical days I was denied access to even know my Schwab bank balance? And this was especially stressful because there was a continual understanding that it was up to me to prove who I am mostly by answering. personal questions. I seemed to being doing my best under the process provided.
From – John F. Kane
Soi 2 M.7 Norkmuang Muang,Surin,
Thailand, 32000
Phone – + 66 – 865-845584788
If you found this interesting and you have any concern for elderly or physically handicapped
or frankly you are just a prankster and enjoy a good prank
HERE IS WHAT I SUGGEST.
First, write / share to others whenever you can to spread this long article to others.
And always stand tall for those of us who are likely on our last trips.
If you just want to have some reasonably innocent fun call Charles Schwab Bank (only the bank) and maybe say you are interested in a new account. Take notes. You will be a modern day sociological researcher. NOTE what Schwab staff say to you? How do they say it? Do you suspect they are high quality AI Robots? Ask if he/ she is a Robot. Report back online to us all. Have fun. Do not get carried away with this but I suggest about 1,000 calls may make a point in my behalf in exchange for my anguish over this period of my life. But don’t worry. If all those people whom I met on line are really AI Robots, They won’t feel a thing.
Schwab Bank, +1 – 0 888- 403 – 9000
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Excuse me for saying this, but although now retired, I suggest I have some qualifications to hold opinion regarding technology.
SPECIAL NOTE. At a time when this frustration was at its strongest, I sat down to write this letter (in my Pattaya hotel) I was only a few paragraphs in when I suddenly got dizzy and fell back onto the bed next to the desk. My rest was short. My wife came back with a taxi to go the Pattaya bus station to go to Bangkok. I had an appointment with a “stint expert” at 9:30 am the next morning in the main BGH (Bangkok General Hospital) headquarters in Bangkok. But instead, I threw up in the Pattaya bus parking lot and passed out. People carefully laid me on the ground. My wife called the BGH Ambulance and I spent two days in the Pattaya branch of BGH. That was the only time I had stayed overnight in a hospital since I was five years old. At the hospital I had an NRI scan and surprise, I had a stroke. At least it was a small one this time.
Do I blame my Schwab Bank for this. Yes, at least some.
Damn it unlock my account immediately.
Maybe I will be satisfied with a good, believable, even teckie oriented explanation of why for several critical days I was denied access to even know my Schwab bank balance? And this was especially stressful because there was a continual understanding that it was up to me to prove who I am. I seemed to being doing my best
From – John F. Kane
Soi 2 M.7 Norkmuang Muang,Surin,
Thailand, 32000
Phone – + 66 – 865-845584788
If you found this interesting and you have any concern for elderly or physically handicapped
or frankly you are just a prankster and enjoy a good prank
HERE IS WHAT I SUGGEST.
First, write / share to others whenever you can to spread this long article to others.
And always stand tall for those of us who are likely on our last trips.
If you just want to have some reasonably innocent fun call
Schwab Bank, +1 – 0 888- 403 – 9000
Special note regarding 403 as a part of a US telephone number. This either in Alberta Canada or The Mountain Time zone possibly including Denver. It may be necessary to reach The Charles Schwab Company by telephone but it might be some kind of new subcategory with international connectivity or fast connectivity with Central Office style EPBX system or even a large air conditioned warehouse with rack after rack of circuit cards labeled with names like Harold Seattle,, Joyce Cleveland , Donald Billings, etc, Maybe these are all the new friends you think you meet if you call Schwab Bank. Maybe? Maybe that number won’t work at all because that is the number I was given in Thailand. And that can quickly be changed if I suggest that you can call it.
Technology can be amazing but needs to be exposed before there is any chance before person to person services can have a chance to return.
Do not get carried away with this but I suggest about 1,000 calls may make a point in my behalf in exchange for my anguish over this period of my life. But don’t worry. If all those people whom I met online really were AI Robots, they won’t feel a thing.
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